Remember Anwar Ibrahim? Well a few years back, he was regarded as the next big thing in Asian politics. Indeed, he was tipped to become the prime minister of Malaysia. Well, after six years in jail for corruption - he was acquitted on sodomy charges - he’s mounting a pretty bold comeback. And now, despite still being officially banned from political activity in Malaysia, 60-year-old Anwar has returned to the political fray. In fact, his plan is to lead the oppostion against the ruling UMNO party and Malaysia’s current Prime Minister, Abdullah Badawi, in the next election. George Negus caught up with him recently in Vancouver.
GEORGE NEGUS: Doctor, it’s good to see you. You bob up all over the place these days. Here you are, out of jail after all of those years, but still in political limbo in your own country. What is it that drives you to keep going back into trouble?
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM, FORMER MALAYSIAN DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: It’s not a question of going into trouble, I mean, I don’t have a choice. I am committed to the reform agenda. I have given this pledge and I must remain consistent.
GEORGE NEGUS: At this stage you are to all intents and purposes banned from speaking in your own country, you can’t actually take part in the politics of your own country, but you have already put up your hand and said yes, you want to run in the next election.
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: It is my basic right as a citizen. The previous administration used a corpse to deny me of this right. How do you expect me to submit to a process that is fundamentally flawed, condemned by the international community?
GEORGE NEGUS: Legally, correct me if I’m wrong, you can’t participate in Malaysian politics until April of next year?
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: What law are you talking about, George? This is a legal process
GEORGE NEGUS: If you tried to speak, you can’t speak publicly.
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: I did, and I continue to do so. There a lot of restrictions - I can’t enter any university in the country, permits had been denied, no report in the mainstream media controlled by the government. Notwithstanding, I’m exercising my rights.
GEORGE NEGUS: They are never going to let you have the freedom.
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: Well, there is a slim chance that Prime Minister Abdullah will act according to the principles of justice..
GEORGE NEGUS: He seems to be putting everything he possibly can in your way.
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: That’s fine, but I am an optimist, an incorrigible optimist.
GEORGE NEGUS: The next big thing in Malaysian politics, you were once called. The former golden boy of South-East Asian politics. Some people even saw you as a Nelson Mandela of Malaysia. Is it possible that you are more popular and have more credibility and more support outside your country than inside? That maybe Anwar Ibrahim’s time has come and gone? You’ve had your moment?
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: That’s what the ruling party would like to believe. If that is so
GEORGE NEGUS: I didn’t talk to them before I said that, by the way.
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: Why the courts? Why the restrictions? Why the complete ban in the media? Why use the courts? Why use the police? If Anwar is irrelevant, then you can just ignore him. But I think, to the contrary, I do receive some support. I’m not in a position to gauge the extent of support, because it can only be done through a free, fair election that we don’t have in Malaysia.
GEORGE NEGUS: If you had to compare Mahathir’s Malaysia with Badawi’s Malaysia, how would you describe the difference?
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: The policies are quite the same. The system operates under the judiciary under the behest of political leaders, the media is completely under the control of the ruling party, yes, but Mahathir used crude, brutal force. Abdullah certainly has shown a lot of, ah ..
GEORGE NEGUS: Subtlety?
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: ..more subtle and slightly at times, even some compassion.
GEORGE NEGUS: Is it a democracy?
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: Certainly it is not a democracy. The best way to describe Malaysia under the present regime is soft authoritarianism.
GEORGE NEGUS: Soft authoritarianism. Let’s talk about Dr Mahathir, your old nemesis. You say, I think, that you’ve forgiven him but you’ve not forgotten what happened. So why have you decided to take legal action against him?
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: I have said no malice towards him, or anyone.
GEORGE NEGUS: He’s obviously still got malice towards you.
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: Yes, and he repeats it. He continues to condemn me and continues to cast malicious, scurrilous attacks against me. And I said, “Please don’t, you are getting to be obsolete and you’re getting very personal.” And after the third time he repeated, then I decided to institute civil proceedings against him. Knowing the limitations of the system and the judiciary, but not withstanding I would exercise my right.
GEROGE NEGUS: Have any members of your family ever said, “Enough is enough. You’re pushing a gigantic rock uphill. You’re not going to make it”?
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: They suffered immensely all these years. My wife, my children, and my close associates. And they remain committed.
GEORGE NEGUS: So you’re not going to give up, clearly?
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: How do you surrender to the corrupt? How do you submit to your jailers?
GEORGE NEGUS: The great religious divide in the world today, between the Islamic and the non-Islamic world, something that you are very passionate about. You’ve said, as I understand it, that you think that both Iraq and the war on terror have been failures because of Islamophobia in the West. Is that what you feel?
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: Yes, clearly. I mean, the rationale for the US Administration to launch the war against Saddam in Iraq was, again, proven to be wrong. It is a clear case of deception. And now having seen the effects and the result, the worst crimes, calamities, in Iraq, we’ll have to change course.
GEORGE NEGUS: Whoever is to blame, are we stuck with the age of terror for 10, 20, 30 years?
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: There are issues that have reached so many people. You have to correct them, too. I’m not giving them an excuse, I’m not apologising for those who perpetrate crimes or terror. Tough measures must be taken against them irrespective of whether they are Muslims or Christians or Jews or whatever.
GEORGE NEGUS: Dr Mahathir had a strange relationship with this country, and he’s still been criticising Australia. But you believe that we have got things wrong as well. You believe that Australia, if you have been quoted correctly, still has racist aspects to it, still has a white supremacist view of its role in Asia.
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: No, I wouldn’t go to that extent. I think you should differentiate my position and Mahathir’s position on this. There is a difference between the attitude of the government and the general Australians. The government in terms of the war, this whole talk about the war on terror and just submitting like lackeys of the Bush Administration, the Howard Government attempts to make amends in terms of their relationship with Asia, but I think that some of the foreign policy prescriptions are totally absurd. There is no concern, understanding about the sensitivities. Not only Muslims. Throughout the world - Asia, China, India, Europe - most of, at random, know that people resent this entire attack and offensive occupation of Iraq. It has reached so many people. You can’t solve a problem with fanatics by causing so much hatred and anger with a vast section of the community.
GEORGE NEGUS: So do you believe that Australia’s involvement, in the coalition of the willing for instance, damages our position in Asia?
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: Yes, you’re doing it against the feeling of the majority of Australians and the majority of Asians. It is an extremely difficult issue for us to just accept that the occupation has resulted in more death and there is no end in sight.
GEORGE NEGUS: Would you go so far as to say we shouldn’t be there?
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: Certainly, I believe that it was a wrong decision on the part of Australia to move and think that they can send troops to Iraq and solve the problem in the Muslim world.
GEORGE NEGUS: A bit more complicated than that?
DR ANWAR IBRAHIM: It is more complex than that, to assume you have all the answers. You just reflect ignorance and arrogance of power and it is not going to help in understanding and forging an engagment between East and West, Muslims and non-Muslims throughout the world.
GEORGE NEGUS: Doctor, always good to talk to you. Thank you for your time.
April 18th 2007
Source:
http://publish.vx.roo.com/sbs/portal/?channel=Dateline&clipId=1207_18042007MA1887
View Dr Anwar Ibrahim Interview Online
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